10:9); we must live out our faith in good works (Mt. Rather, this picture is the creation of ignorance, an anti-Catholic who did not even understand the Catholic faith before creating something about it. […] Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. To conclude, remember that this is the “STRONGEST argument against Catholicism.” It requires rejecting all of the second century evidence for apostolic succession as “pious romance” or worse, and there’s zero positive evidence actually supporting it. The issue being that it is a completely stupid argument against the Church. Walls appears to be basing this claim off of both Eno and Duffy, the latter of whom says that Ignatius of Antioch “wrote a series of letters to other churches, largely consisting of appeals to them to unite round their bishops. Brown knowing Greek and being well-read doesn’t make his argument any stronger. He doesn’t bother to make any arguments or give any evidence. Of course, that is the definition of an argument from silence (and Walls even calls it such in footnote 25 of his journal article). For this is how the apostolic churches record their origins. But my point is that these days, any argument with a Catholic can be neatly avoided—and often is by the Church's most vigilant opponents—by devolving to the Westboro Baptist Church’s self-proclaimed “air-tight, three word case against the Catholic Church”: priests rape boys. I would like to ask the person who made this picture above where the Catholic Church teaches that candles, tithing, or holy water, for example, saves a person in place of Jesus, or at all. Period. En route to martyrdom, Ignatius passed through the Roman provinces of Asia Minor and Thracia (present-day Turkey and Greece). We are the ones who made it and gave it to the world! Opposition to religious imagery was a feature of proto-Protestant movements such as the Lollards in England.. To hold to this position, you have to ignore the fact that several other (seemingly independent) ancient sources all tell us that Clement was the Bishop of Rome: St. Irenaeus says so in c. 180, Tertullian treats it as well known history in c. 200, Eusebius (265-339) talks about it in his discussion of the history of the popes in Book III of Church History, and St. Jerome mentions it in his biographical sketch of the life of Clement. Although Walls repeatedly claims that this is the “consensus” of even Roman Catholic scholars, he’s actually contradicting even the scholars he cites. Ignatius wrote about it repeatedly, Clement treated it as apostolically-ordained, Irenaeus points to it to fight heresies, and each apostolic church kept the records to show its succession from the Apostles. It’s whether, given that you’ve accepted Christianity, you accept the distinctive claims of Catholicism, or Orthodoxy, or any of the various forms of Protestantism. “The Catholic Verses: 95 Biblical Verses that Confound Protestants “ by Dave Armstrong. Solidifying me as the best son-in-law ever. And if not, on what basis are we compelled to accept his claims about the evidence for the papacy or apostolic succession? 7:21). And 199 other questions from Catholic teenagers” by Matthew Pinto. In every succession, and in every city that is held which is preached by the law and the prophets and the Lord.” So notice that each of these authorities says that all of the apostolic churches keep lists like this: that fact will become salient in a moment. Let us look at a few of them. By disregarding it as fake, on the authority of the Lutheran scholar Peter Lampe: Lampe argues that this list “is with highest probability a historical construction from the 180s, when the monarchical episcopacy developed in Rome.” In other words, it anachronistically imports into earlier decades what was emerging in the 180s. in Jesus, God recapitulates all of his history of salvation on behalf of men.”(430, 1992), Margaret Sanger Eugenics (Planned Parenthood and the Master Race) – PART 2, Evidence for the Existence of God (Part 1 – Something from Nothing), Catholic and Orthodox (Emotional Argumentation vs. There is not even a peep of dissension, of one side saying that the other side just made up the episcopacy or the papacy. Flesh and Blood: What Are We Willing to Give of Them? But it is ample evidence that there was a bishop of Rome at the time that Shepherd of Hermas was written (Hermas’ own brother), and well before Justin Martyr wrote the First Apology in c. 160. Capturing Christianity, Cameron Bertuzzi’s YouTube platform, recently released a 90-minute video called “The STRONGEST Argument Against Catholicism w/ Dr. Jerry Walls. Among low-church² Protestants, there are two — no, three — no, probably more, but I’m going to tackle only three — three major arguments made against the Catholic view of the saints. So how does Walls’ “STRONGEST argument against Catholicism” hold up? This is the most up-to-date, comprehensive, and thorough defense of the Catholic Church against Protestant objections in print. “Pope Fiction: Answers to 30 Myths & Misconceptions About the Papacy” by Patrick Madrid. Counter-Reformation, the Roman Catholic efforts directed in the 16th–17th century against the Protestant Reformation and toward internal renewal. In both his article and his conversation with Bertuzzi, Walls makes much of the fact that St. Ignatius of Antioch doesn’t mention the Bishop of Rome in his letter to the Romans. Dr. Horrell explains, “Usually, it’s related to… the large house of cardinals and the leading theologians in the movement; but finally, that all comes under, of course, the pope himself.” Besides providing a trusted, unified voice to guide Catholics, this body also allows the church to make official pronouncements on contemporary issues which Scripture might not directly address. Intellectual Argumentation). Was the Reformation a mistake? The picture above quotes one verse that says we are saved by “believing in Jesus,” which is true. In the early 16th century the Catholic Church experienced a large separation which significantly changed Christianity. And as they tell the story, what you have in early Rome are multiple bishops, multiple elders, and the idea is that the city of Rome features what [the German Lutheran scholar] Peter Lampe calls a “fractionated” situation, so you have the Church scattered in different pockets. The world of the late medieval Roman Catholic Church from which the 16th-century reformers emerged was a complex one. A Catholic and a Protestant debate Two theology professors — one Catholic, one Protestant — get to the heart of … Walls treats the historicity of the Resurrection as generally accepted, although he acknowledges “that there are numerous scholars on the other side who are more skeptical, or who strongly deny the resurrection.” But this isn’t some skeptical fringe: secular historians in fact tend to treat the Resurrection as fictional, for the simple reason that it describes a supernatural event. This is riddled with errors and exaggerations, as well as some telling omissions. Therefore, it would hardly be surprising were Ignatius not to mention bishops. Catholicism, by contrast, teaches that God ultimately accepts people because Christ’s righteousness is poured into them (infused or imparted), thus making them actually righteous. (126) During the tempestuous time of the rise of Protestantism following the Reformation, the Catholic Church needed advocates who would defend the faith against calumnies and distortions, while at the same time militating for needed reform. I alluded to the biblical evidence above, and would refer you to my book if that piques your interest. Of the corresponding process of canonization of the episcopate, there is, on other hand, no trace whatever. Later legend would fill out the details of Peter’s life and death in Rome—his struggles with the magician and father of heresy, Simon Magus, his miracles, his attempted escape from persecution in Rome, a flight from which he was turned back by a reproachful vision of Christ (the ‘Quo Vadis’ legend), and finally his crucifixion upside down in the Vatican Circus in the time of the Emperor Nero. The time gap from original manuscripts to our oldest complete copies is relatively small. “If Protestantism is true: the reformation meets Rose” by Devin Rose . Moreover, it requires assuming that the Apostles established a Protestant-style church in Rome, but that the Christians got rid of it and replaced it with an episcopal/papal structure, all while paying lip service to the apostolic origins of their structure of governance. Likewise confession is part of God’s plan and Jesus Himself gave men the power to forgive sins (Jn. Likewise confession is part of God’s plan. If you read it, you’ll find the Catholic church teaches things which are contrary to … ” In it, Bertuzzi sits down with Dr. Jerry Walls, a philosopher at Houston Baptist University, who presents what he views as the best argument against the Catholic claim.There’s actually a lot to like about the video. Papal succession is foundational to Catholicism, and so we should expect it to be historically well-supported, but it isn’t. When Bertuzzi points out that this seems to just be an argument from silence, Walls replies: How so? That fragment itself dates to 170, and it’s describing the 140s, so both it and the testimony of Hegesippus seem to debunk the idea that this is all a fabrication or anachronism from the 180s. We should expect to see evidence of both (1) and (2), but there is literally none. Catholicism ftw. If they could respond to him by pointing out that his own Church was in the process of innovating a papacy and rewriting its own history, don’t you think that they would? Walls’ argument, in a nutshell, works like this: the Resurrection is foundational to Christianity, and so we should expect it to be historically well-supported, and it is. even though every ancient source who discusses the question says it was Peter. his is the most up-to-date, comprehensive, and thorough defense of the Catholic Church against Protestant objections in print. But as St. Thomas Aquinas notes, “The proof from authority is the weakest form of proof.” (And if Aquinas says it, it must be correct . But the same is true of the arguments against the early papacy. Duffy is convinced that there isn’t an unbroken line from St. Peter, but he is a historian of the fifteenth to seventeenth century, not of the early Church, and his arguments are heavily reliant on that third scholar, Fr. But there’s a second problem with this reasoning as well. But they are pious romance, not history, and the fact is that we have no reliable accounts either of Peter’s later life or of the manner or place of his death. Ignatius’ seven letters are written on his way from Antioch (the city over which he was bishop) to Rome (the city in which he was martyred), and were written somewhere around AD 107. Are all of them lying, or rewriting history? Most of the texts themselves have been translated into English for over a century, and few of the disputes hinge upon esoteric questions of Greek grammar or the like. The term “magisterium” refers to the official teaching body of the Roman Catholic Church. It’s time! Answering Anti-Catholic Arguments (and showing why they are wrong). And that leads to the second part of Walls’ case, the argument from skepticism. The Church has taught this for over 2000 years now. However, it is not just an intellectual belief only that saves you but a living, breathing, working faith. This book is especially relevant as the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation draws near and discussion of the arguments made against the Church during that time in history receive renewed interest. He explains that it is because “it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority [potiorem principalitatem].”. Also, Scripture is clear that we must have more than an intellectual faith. But the other, more obvious reason that Ignatius’ letter to the Romans sounds different is that he is on his way to be martyred in their presence, and he is writing to them to ask them not to intervene to try to prevent his martyrdom, and to pray for the church in Syria that he is to leave behind. But let’s consider what Lampe and Walls’ theory entails. in Jesus, God recapitulates all of his history of salvation on behalf of men.”(430, 1992). So this is less like second-guessing a linguist on his translation, and more like second-guessing an umpire calling balls and strikes: he probably knows his field better than you do, but not so much so that you can’t recognize a bad call when you see it. Well, no we don’t. But Walls doesn’t do that. The atheist blogger Bob Seidensticker explains the crux of the problem well: Christians correctly point out that the historical grounding for the Jesus story has some compelling points. That is not the case. Walls claimed that several figures (Clement, Ignatius, Hermas, and Justin) described (1), but that’s simply false, as shown above. To accept any version of Walls’ argument, you would have to believe that (1) the original structure of the Roman church was something like a group of co-equal elders, and (2) at some point [the 180s, according to Lampe and Walls; no later than the 150s, according to Duffy], this apostolically-established structure was superseded or replaced by a single, powerful bishop who became the first pope. You don’t need to be an expert to realize that this is a catch-22: that whether or not Ignatius mentions bishops, this is taken as “proof” that there weren’t bishops before c. 100. Acts 26:26). (This is the most up-to-date, comprehensive, and thorough defense of the Catholic Church against Protestant objections in print). Seven years ago, I myself was an emotional and excited Protestant convert to Catholicism (though also a revert, as my parents left the Church shortly after my first communion). That's all well and good, but there are Protestants who have genuine and well thought out arguments. For his part, Bertuzzi appears to be on his way towards the Catholic Church, and seems to be genuinely trying to sort out the competing claims of Protestantism and Catholicism. We would expect Ignatius to mention bishops in his letter to the Romans; Ignatius says “nothing whatever about bishops” in this letter; Therefore, there must have not have been a bishop in Rome at the time that Ignatius wrote (c. 107 AD). Pro-tip: it helps to do real research first about a religion before attacking it. Really BAD arguments against the Catholic Church As stated above, most of these assertions are just made up – invented. In other words, they are claiming Catholics have beliefs that they do not in fact believe. In other words, there are many other things that Jesus commanded us to do, that if we do not do them, we will not be saved. It’s a fact of history that Suetonius wrote about the messenger, but this miraculous appearance isn’t actually part of history. ++, **My recommendations based on this article. Catholics Worship Mary as a Goddess. Instead, it is supported by little more than blind appeals to authority, relying on skeptical scholars when they cast doubt on the papacy, while ignoring when those same scholars cast doubt on the Virgin Birth or physical Resurrection. T oday, conservative critics of liberalism tend to be Catholic. At various points after the Reformation, some majority Protestant states, including England, Prussia, and Scotland made anti-Catholicism and opposition to the Pope and Catholic rituals major political themes, and the anti-Catholic sentiment which resulted from it frequently lead to religious discrimination against Catholic individuals (often derogatorily referred to in Anglophone Protestant countries as "papists" or … God bless you, fellows at @WordOnFire. Christians would not accept an argument that because of these things, Israel was not God’s chosen people – for it would contradict Scripture. First, both men seem to be genuinely interested in the truth. Walls treats Duffy and Brown as if they were independent sources, and cites the duo/trio as evidence of a scholarly “consensus”: So again, I emphasize, I’m citing the Roman Catholic historians. As with the Gospel accounts, we’re dealing with a case in which there are multiple corroborating accounts, and who are near in time to the events to which they’re attesting. A PROTESTANT DEFENSE OF SOLA SCRIPTURA. With that said, let’s look at each argument in order: There are a lot of places in the Bible in which Jesus seems to treat Peter as the head of the Apostles: the famous scene in which he seems to build the Church upon Peter in Matthew 16:17-19; the time that he says to “let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves” and then calls Peter to serve the other Apostles by strengthening them (Luke 22:26, 32); the multiple fishing miracles and teachings in which Jesus seems to treat Peter as the fisherman, the Church as the net, and the laity as the fish (cf. The Sacred Heart of Jesus – How God thirsts for our love! All of these people were observers of the Church of Rome, all of them were participants in the Church of Rome, all of them describe the leadership of Rome in this same sort of way: as multiple persons, and again, there’s often an interchange between “elders” and “bishops,” they use those terms more or less interchangeably, so you don’t have any kind of a clear sense with most of them of anything like a bishop. The fact that the Church had a decision to make in regard to the Scriptures is documented and clear. The notion of a church choosing its church order is unheard of in Christian tradition until the sixteenth century with the Reformation in Switzerland, and the choice between presbyteral and episcopal government is church-dividing to this day. Generations of uncatechized Catholics have been killing the Church and giving it a bad name. “Did Jesus have a last name? Scripture cannot be any more clear! A Protestant might go about trying to rebut this evidence directly, showing that none of it actually means what it seems to mean. God bless Bishop Barron. Different list of books were circulating during the fourth century, and a definitive list was drawn up in the African councils at the end of that century and by Pope Innocent I in 405. This book is especially relevant as the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation draws near and discussion of the arguments made against the Church during that time in history receive renewed interest. “Dominion,” the Values of the West, and the Cross of Christ. Rome accurately understands the Protestant position and unapologetically anathematizes it. –. **Catholicism and Fundamentalism: Attacks on “Romanism” by “Bible Christians.” (One of the BEST books on defending the Catholic faith against Protestants and anti-Catholic arguments). Scripture alone is obvious a Protestant only sentiment as the Catholic Church did not publish the Bible until the end of the fourth century. In place of that evidence, there’s no evidence pointing in the other direction. Here’s the argument from Eamon Duffy that Walls finds so convincing: The tradition that Peter and Paul had been put to death at the hands of Nero in Rome about the year AD 64 was universally accepted in the second century, and by the end of that century pilgrims to Rome were being shown the ‘trophies’ of the Apostles, their tombs or cenotaphs, Peter’s on the Vatican Hill, and Paul’s on the Via Ostiensis, outside the walls on the road to the coast. But when he writes to Rome, where supposedly the bishop of bishops lives, he doesn’t mention a bishop. This picture not only makes multiple errors regarding Catholicism, but the Catholic Church herself does not even teach half of the things listed on it. As bishop of one of the oldest and most important sees in Christendom (see Acts 11:26), Ignatius leaves instructions in these places, encouraging them to obey their bishops, and greeting the bishop, presbyters, and deacons in each city. For example, the Catholic Church does not teach that we are saved by Peter or that Peter gets us to heaven. That is what Catholics believe! The historian Suetonius reported that Julius saw a divine messenger who urged him to cross. Answers in Genesis, the Evangelical, Young-Earth Creation group responsible for the series, normally charges $12.99 for this talk , … The best argument against the Catholic church is the Bible. But believing in evolution on scientific evidence is a far cry from rejecting apostolic succession simply because Fr. Indeed, Walls (a graduate of Notre Dame) has written a book defending the idea of Purgatory from a Protestant perspective. There are plenty of areas in which we see development of doctrine, or we see doctrinal fighting within the early Church. And what about the Muratorian fragment, which mentions Pius being the Bishop of Rome, even before Anicetus? And the focus is specifically on whether or not Peter had successors as the Bishop of Rome. . **“Bible Basics for Catholics” by John Bergsma, Scott Hahn. It is an exquisite journal as usual. Protestants and American Conservatism: A Short History by gillis harp oxford, 336 pages, $36.95. As far as I can tell, Brown is the only one who both has expertise in the area and rejects the Catholic claim to apostolic succession. You’ll see that he never mentions bishops or elders at any point (much less conflating the two), because he’s arguing about the truth of Christianity over paganism, not describing the structure of the Church. I mean, where did someone even concoct this from? Comfort and Joy: Spiritual Lessons in the Final Days of Advent. Given that he could have chosen any of the apostolic churches, why does Irenaeus choose Rome? This is common among anti-Catholics who quickly sling Bible verses at Catholics but almost always take them out of context. “How do you know the Scriptures are inspired? Duffy acknowledges that Christians of the second century, along with the “greatest minds of the early Church” in the third and fourth century, accepted particular historical claims about Peter, the most important of which is that he died during Nero’s persecution in AD 64, in the city of Rome. As St. Paul might say, such changes couldn’t have escaped the notice of the rest of the world’s Christians, “for this was not done in a corner” (cf. For example, there are not one but four gospel accounts. One reason for this may be that he did not feel it appropriate to leave instructions to “the Church which is beloved and enlightened by the will of Him that wills all things which are according to the love of Jesus Christ our God, which also presides in the place of the region of the Romans, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of the highest happiness, worthy of praise, worthy of obtaining her every desire, worthy of being deemed holy, and which presides over love, is named from Christ, and from the Father.” Ignatius says of the Roman Church, “you have never envied any one; you have taught others.” Had Ignatius left instructions to this church, Walls might have used that to argue that the Bishop of Rome must not have been above the Bishop of Antioch in any ways. Remember, Irenaeus’ entire argument against the heretics was that they were innovators. An evangelical discovers Catholic Tradition” by Mark Shea. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. Yet on all of this the New Testament is silent. The final defense is that these scholars are Catholics. I’ve actually written a book on this very subject, which is why Word on Fire asked me to respond to his claims. 16:16 – “He who believes and is baptized will be saved.”). Catholics believe that Jesus died once and for all on the cross to save us from our sins. . Thank you. So Walls’ argument from silence is actually built on two fallacies: first, that we would expect Ignatius’ letter to the Romans to sound like all of his other letters; and second, that the letter to the Romans never mentions bishops. And it requires assuming that these twentieth-century skeptics had a better idea of what the Church looked like in Rome in the first and second century than did the actual Christians of the second century (including both Roman Christians and visitors to Rome, like Hegesippus). Of course the Resurrection is more important, and so it’s hardly surprising that the early Christians spoke more about Jesus rising from the dead than about the juridical primacy of the Roman See. She’s going to love it. But the Bible clearly states that “Baptism saves you.” Do not ignore the verse because it makes you feel uncomfortable or you do not understand it. For Protestants, people become children of God because Christ’s righteousness is attributed to them (reckoned, credited to, or forensically imputed). I am not Roman Catholic because Rome denies the gospel. When Protestants read a verse like that, they immediately get uncomfortable and retract saying, “No, only Christ saves you.”. 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