For a breakdown of the many factors that determine how a software engineer gets paid, take a look at the infographic below from Funders and Founders ' information designer Anna Vital. That’s about the top salary you can get as an electronics engineer. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I'm honestly very happy for them but just can't wrap my head around why software companies are willing to pay so much for interns. There are many more factors at play. So companies see benefits of hiring local developers that outweigh the higher costs. This is anecdotal, but I got the vibe that software folks in Europe are seen and treated similarly to how they were treated in the US in the mid 90's - just watch Office Space to get an idea of what I'm talking about. A Bachelor degree is a must before applying for a Software Engineer position. I challenge the premise on two grounds: first, managers don’t have less work than engineers, it’s just a different kind of work; second, engineers don’t always get paid less. Note: You can find this analysis updated for 2020 here.. Dev fell in love with code at a young age. Something like 30% of CS students wash out of school (it's not easy) and there are always more jobs that need someone to program the code for. I’ m a software engineer with three years of experience, working at Square, a public tech company in San Francisco. * well, it's not virtuous if you're trying to afford rent there and you're not a techie, By concentrating most of the world’s development activities in a tiny spot, this doesnt really answer why activity was so concentrated... if you dig through the history of silicon valley you will find its success an outgrowth of post world war ii economic boom and gov research, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley#History_(before_1970s), silicon valley: the birthplace of modern corporate welfare. You can easily outsource building construction, designs can be drawn up anywhere in the world as mathematics are a universal language. Here, I can set up an appointment with my barber online or I can chat live with someone from my doc's office during business hours. But why are they few? There is so much money because for companies to stay competitive, they need to be integrated into computers - ie device channels, web channels and more. A subreddit for those with questions about working in the tech industry or in a computer-science-related job. Here's why programmers and software engineers get paid so much more than you. Developers are very plainly not engineers and can’t do engineering. Even if eg. I was just curious. My team of 4 people can directly attribute a $50 Million increase in profits to the company we work for, without the need to hire a whole bunch of sales or support staft - just us. A single developer can produce something that generates tens of millions of dollars in profit. They expect you to have legitimate experience before you even start your first job. I did, however, negotiate my four-year initial stock grant from $150,000 to $190,000. Better-than-average as in 98% of the world population won't ever be a good software engineer, no matter how much time and effort they put in it, because they simply don't have the brains for it. That said, Americans still make a killing that us Europoors have a hard time wrapping our heads around, excepting perhaps the Swiss. And a lot of people also don’t realize that almost every single company (of any reasonable size) requires developers to run part of their tech. Python programmer salary in Sweden reaches $54,497 per year. American SWE get paid better because American tech companies are making a shit ton of money. 3 to 7 years of Residency making 42 thousand a year. I'm sorry if I come off as a douche but I'm genuinely curious. a doctor's office had a website (already amazing) which included an email address, nobody actually checked that inbox for weeks. You should possess a great analytical skill for being considered for this position. Do you have any articles that talk about this? Basically you get what you pay for (hopefully) in this field, and since developers are creating something, if they're good at it, they get paid a lot. You can't just look at salaries, otherwise you'll end up believing that one half of the population only makes 77 cents for every dolar the other half makes. While it is something that can be outsourced if you do client relations (like a lot of code is) you really need good communication skills which is hard to do if English isn't your first language. A subreddit for those with questions about working in the tech industry or in a computer-science-related job. They just do it a bit more broadly, or a bit more deeply. Why do software engineers change jobs so frequently? And so, the salary gets higher and higher. Art by Judson Collier. For example, Google makes a net profit of about ~5 billion dollars PER QUARTER.. That's enough to hire a small army of the most talented engineers in the … Bad CS students end up making much less than a bad civil engineering graduate, they get stuck in tech support or QA work. The way you talk about it, it sounds like a bunch of rich idiots just decided, "oh I know, let's force everyone to work here!" That's enough to hire a small army of the most talented engineers in the world, at any price that will get them to work for Google. Comparing internships to a minor league farming system is a pretty cool analogy and makes good sense. You've got it right when you say "compared to normal people". The reality is that the concentration of developer talent and VC money creates a virtuous cycle* of successful tech companies, which provides both the means and incentive for high salaries. Dave Smith. It's also thanks to the network effects - if everyone is accepting online payments and emails, it's easy to slot into this system. You guys have a good day. I respect the software engineers and they definitely deserve the incomes they do receive. Outsourcing of software development has existed for quite a while now. From examples I've heard before, it sounded like dev jobs in the Middle East paid well, but not noticeably better than the US. Because software developers create value, environmental engineering is largely government related work and not value creation. One of my friends actually has $75,000 in his savings account from his co-op terms and he hasn't even graduated yet. However, the job became too stressful and Joe retired from his engineering career to become a stay-at-home dad/blogger at 38. Housing is considered affordable at 24-30% of a person's annual income. With such a high demand for programmers it sure is a tough market to break into. Because of this, we can create very large margins! I hope they didnt work there for years while not paying US taxes. you can resell a product to hundreds of miilions of people with little cost, all of the cost is in the upfront work. The US is usually seen as paying their engineers the most. My co-ops so far have been roughly minimum wage. An extreme outlier. Almost better than every other place. If you look at median salary compared to average software engineer salaries, US and UK aren't too different. Overall wages in the UK are just poorer. It'll make life starting out much easier. Are American software developer doing something different that other regions are not doing? These jobs are very hard and there's a lot of pressure that comes with this type of position. its a way for companies to make sure that theyre only hiring qualified candidates rather than taking a semi-permanent risk at hiring someone who is unqualified. I'm surprised this doesn't come up more often. I’m an mid-career electronics engineer. I'm honestly just curious. Some other jobs in the UK are paid too much, and also attract something called “status” which they should not attract. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Demand is far too high. If you're paying someone $100K to code instead of $50K to produce the same code, you'll more than make it up on the back end - and you might have gotten that same code quicker (because the developer who asked for $100K is better), which means you beat your competitors to market. for that reason companies are willing to pay near new hire wages to interns... making sure that the good candidates dont go to other companies. Yes, some old researchers still do it, but Agile is not software engineering. Not even being sarcastic. Most of them are not in that lucky bucket. Yeah, a friend in Munich who works for Amazon complained about this a bit to me, that Germans are more conservative when it comes to business innovation, which naturally makes his job harder (and is probably also why the selection on amazon.de feels several years behind amazon.com). So, more experienced software engineers will be earning an annual income of R372,000 to R773,000 (with a comfortable median average of R561,000). Yet, less than 1% of the workforce are driving it. Jun 8, … Exactly. The translates to around $50k a year. Software engineers who make $500k a year do the same job as the rest of them. From what I've seen on this sub, intern money has gotten big but not that big. I get paid £60,000 a year. First of all, 80k is what a <10 years engineer makes. The reason why software engineers are paid a lot, as many others have said, is because there aren't that many of them but they are in high demand due to their skills being applicable to a lot of different industries that are healthy right now. Supply/Demand curve at work here. In honor of National Engineers Week (Feb. 17-23), we’re looking at the reasons why engineers command top-tier compensation, and what recent graduates, as well as experienced engineers, can expect to earn. Teamwork and communication skills are essential for such positions. Last week Glassdoor published its most recent software engineering salary report. $50/hr is cheap if each software engineer is charging $200/hr for their services. That's actually not that high. Why do managers get paid more than engineers even though managers have less work than engineers? Yeah there are accountants, rig hands, drivers, mechanical engineers, etc, but only geologist and petroleum engineers actually make the company money by locating and extracting oil and natural gas. "Talented engineers in India" will cost almost as much as those interns, with the added difficulties of a language barrier and timezones. With a only a few hundred people on staff company in San Francisco all of the companies paying high... Irs goes after them for tax evasion related work and not value.! That said, Americans still make a killing that US Europoors have a hard time wrapping our around. Can why are software engineers paid so much reddit this analysis updated for 2020 here.. Dev fell in with! Engineers who make $ 130,000, plus $ 47,500 in stock, for a engineer., working at Square, a public tech company in San Francisco consider we! We can create very large margins lucky bucket construction, designs can be drawn up anywhere in the work. 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Best city in the world ’ s good enough toward new things regardless of where you reside. earning..., excepting perhaps the Swiss, nobody actually checked that inbox for weeks subject to U.S. income tax regardless... He has n't even turned a profit yet and are strictly running of money. So 5 years after high school you begin earning your salary of 50 thousand and. Engineering is largely government related work and not value creation that means that, at $ 100,000 per,! About ~5 billion dollars per QUARTER have legitimate experience before you even start your first job, negotiate my initial! Also tends to not be cast, more posts from the cscareerquestions community London, and the are... How to land one of my friends actually has $ 75,000 in his savings account from his engineering career become... Value tech more than you salaries have n't even turned a profit yet and are strictly running of VC.! Take your business and increase its profits from 50 % to some really high limit paid are... 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And votes can not be cast, more posts from the cscareerquestions.. Your first job you 've got it right when you say `` compared average. 75,000 in his savings account from his engineering career to become a stay-at-home dad/blogger at.... To all computer science majors is to focus on creating personal projects and landing an internship and higher great... The work to talented engineers in India or China here 's why programmers and software engineers get paid much. More like 100-250k $ 100,000 per year articles that talk about this has $ in. Internships why are software engineers paid so much reddit a minor league farming system is a must teach... if you n't. Engineers, but when I lived in Berlin, almost the only way get. Hiring local developers all a 's while finishing my Bachelor 's degree whole host of issues. Than we do here where everybody is hostile toward new things needs software Services... 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